In this special Q&A episode, Juli answered your questions about sex and marriage. You’ll hear answers to questions like, why did God make us sexual when it causes so much pain? Does sex matter in marriage? And, is it possible to be too focused on sex in marriage?
Prefer to listen? You can also listen to the full conversation here.
Juli (00:01.72)
Well, hey friend, welcome to Java with Juli. I am Juli Slattery, the host of this podcast and Java with Juli is listener supported. It is an outreach of the ministry called Authentic Intimacy. And at our ministry, we help people make sense of God and sexuality. And we’re headed in that direction today.
So let me pose to you a few questions. Do you think that you can have a great marriage with no sex? Can marriages even survive without sex? And what is a good frequency for a couple?
Well, today I’m joined by my friend who is also my cousin, Hannah Nitz, and those are some of the questions I’m going to be answering. Now, if you’re not familiar with our ministry, some of my answers might be pretty shocking for you. But the truth is, all of these questions are gonna go back to understanding who God is and what His design for sex and marriage are.
So we’re going to talk a lot about that as I answer some of your questions. Let’s dive into it.
Juli (01:03.106)
All right, welcome to Java with Juli. I am pleased as always to have Hannah with me as my guest-host. So people love when you’re on the podcast.
Hannah
It’s fun to be on with you. And you know, the easy part about being on the podcast with you is a lot of times your producer, who we love, will send questions that either people have been getting, topics that want to be covered. So I come here, I have an email with questions I get to ask you, and then I just get to sit here and listen to you answer them. It’s really a fun activity.
Juli
There you go, how fun is that?
Hannah (01:41.496)
Yeah, today we’re talking more about questions, big picture questions around sex. I don’t know if you’ve heard, this is a topic you talk about. And today has a little bit of a focus more on marriage.
Juli (01:52.93)
Yes, I have heard that. Yeah, yes. A few months ago, we did one of these where we talked more on singleness and questions that people are asking about singleness. So we’re like, OK, let’s get to some of those marriage questions. Yeah.
Hannah
Yeah. Yeah, so it’s kind of fun getting to do this with you because when I started working with you with Authentic Intimacy at the very beginning days, this was our main topic. So you taught on this, this was like a big focus on teaching on sexuality. Now it’s just kind of one piece of the puzzle. I like that we’re returning back.
Juli
Yeah, actually Hannah, I think our episodes on sex and marriage are still the ones that are most downloaded. I know. Yeah.
Hannah
I’m kind of surprised by that. It’s almost like this is an issue that all of us in marriage are still trying to figure out.
Juli
Yeah, we certainly want to be aware of and sensitive to our single audience because there’s a lot of them too, but it reminds me we need to keep coming back to this topic as well.
Hannah (02:52.216)
Yeah. Great. Well, you’re ready to do it?
Juli
I hope I am.
Hannah
So, these are some of the questions that, again, you guys send through email, we hear at conferences or events, and we’re just kind of going to hit some of those today just in order to kind of guide this conversation. So, let’s get started. Here’s one to kick us off. Just a quick, easy, big picture one. Why did God make us sexual?
Juli (03:14.978)
There you go.
Hannah (03:18.668)
I feel like we all go through so much pain because of sexual issues. What’s the deal? Why is this something that God created?
Juli
Boy, that is a big question. It is. You know, and I think it’s not just related to sexuality. We’ll talk about that. But you could ask, like, why did God create us with the need for food? Like, we don’t experience this in North America often, but around the world, people have died and suffered because they can’t find food. And God could have made them so that they didn’t need food. And so when we look at any part of the human experience, including sexuality, there’s the blessing and the gift of what He created it to be. And then there’s the reality of living in a very broken, fallen world where we often experience pain because of that blessing.
Hannah
Man, if that isn’t true. I was just talking to my brother about this yesterday, and I think I said it in a little bit of a sad undertone. But I said, ‘Every year of life, I feel like I’m made aware that life is harder’. And you’re right. The reality is that there’s brokenness in all of these pieces. So you’re saying just because you can’t necessarily single out sexuality and say, ‘Man, this one is so hard or broken, like that’s tucked in everywhere’.
Juli (04:41.794)
Yeah, I mean, why did God make us to be born to parents when a lot of our pain, our deepest pain comes from, you know, like, parental issues? You know, so if we zoom back, we’ve got to say, okay, what was God doing in creating all these things and making the human experience the way He did? And, you know, I firmly believe as I read Scripture that everything He created, He created to reveal something about Himself to us. You know, so you think about how we’re born in families.
And then you think about how central to understanding God is the concept of He’s our Father, and we’re in the family of God, and we’re sons and daughters of God, that if we didn’t have the physical experience of what it is to have a father, to long for a father’s love, to long for that belonging and family, we wouldn’t understand that. Same thing with hunger. You know, like, we are dependent on food every day. We’re dependent on water every day. And so Jesus comes and He says, I am the bread of life. I am the living water. And so the physical prepares our heart to receive the spiritual. In a very similar way, you know, God created us with a desire for sexual intimacy, with the desire to be known, because He’s revealing to us what it is to be His covenant people. And, you know, that’s a big answer. But when you look through Scripture, marriage and sexuality are most often referenced sort of as a metaphor of God’s covenant love with His people. In the Old Testament with the nation of Israel, and then with the New Testament, we see all this bridal and sexual imagery to relate to God’s intimacy with us through Christ. So that’s the big theological answer that… is a big one.
Juli (06:36.662)
Yeah, and if you’re familiar with Authentic Intimacy resources, that’s one that I’ve spent a lot of time breaking down what that actually means, how that relates to you, whether you’re single or married, how that helps you make sense of your longings and your brokenness. But that’s sort of the big picture of why did He make us sexual? Why does that matter so much? And even why is there such a spiritual battle around our sexuality?
Hannah
So as you like have that conversation or teaching this, I love the way that you walk through that Juli. We just got a little piece of that here. I would say like the average married couple, if you ask them that question, why did God design sexuality? I just feel like a pretty large percentage probably wouldn’t give that answer.
Juli
No. I mean, my goodness, I wouldn’t have given that answer 10 years ago. Like it’s really only been as I’ve been able to full-time study this and teach this. The book, “God, Sex, and Your Marriage”, I actually wrote to flesh this out in terms of how that actually applies to marriage and how it informs sexuality within marriage.
Hannah
So how does having that big picture right, why is that so important? Like why is that the first question we’re talking about today that, know, most of the marriage questions we get aren’t like, what’s the point? It’s more sub-questions or things underneath that. I don’t know, do you feel like why is that part so important?
Juli (08:07.65)
Yeah, because that gives us perspective and wisdom as we address the more nuanced individual questions. They kind of keep pointing back. Yeah. Remember, right. What is this all about?
So like you and I are big Cleveland sports fans.
Hannah
For better for worse. We’re all in.
Juli
Yeah. We’ve had better and worse this year.
Hannah
Yeah.
Juli
But let’s say you just watch a game, you know, pick the Browns or pick the Cavs. The Cavs are much more fun to cheer for right now. And you just dissect each play and each player and you’re like, what should they be doing? But you forget to zoom out and say, what’s the overarching goal? It’s to win. It’s to have a good season.
Juli (08:48.064)
You know, it’s like in anything we do, whether it’s our work or parenting, we have to zoom out at some point and say, what’s the whole purpose of this? And if we don’t, we really miss the forest for the trees. It makes the problems feel more insurmountable. And it makes the good times just very superficial. But when we can zoom out, we see the big picture of why all this matters and what we should be working towards.
It’s in some weird way kind of encouraging to be like, okay, now I actually see what steps I need to take where I can make sense of the brokenness that I experience.
Hannah
Hmm, man, makes sense of the brokenness. That’s a-whole-nother, I feel like I could ask 10 more questions after that. Okay, so then let’s, we’re talking about big picture sexuality. Now we’re gonna zoom in a little bit more, because this is conversation around marriage. So taking that answer, let’s apply it to marriage. Does sex matter in marriage? Why? And what’s the purpose?
Hannah
Yeah, so first of all, yes, it matters in marriage. And there we go. Yeah, I think it’s important to talk this through because somebody, if they just take that answer, can be like, well, then, you know, like if we’re not having sex or we’re not having good sex, then, you know, like something’s horribly wrong. You know, and I’ve even been asked questions before, like, if we’re not having sex, should we even be married?
So you’ve got to say, yes, it matters, but we’ve got to give some context to that. And that’s why I’m glad there’s questions like ‘why’. And there are several reasons why it matters in marriage. You know, one of the things that I often say is that sex will never be a neutral issue in your marriage. So it’s either going to, over time, be something that creates more intimacy and vulnerability, or it’s going to be something that becomes a wedge where there’s resentment, there’s unresolved conflict, you know.
Hannah (10:43.362)
And that is such an intense sentence that it can’t be neutral. Why is that? That’s crazy.
Juli (10:54.73)
No. It’s the way God designed it.
feels like there is so much that can be neutral. So to think that this whole conversation, this whole topic is so important, you’re essentially saying it’s either going to make things better or worse.
Yeah.
Juli (11:07.694)
Yeah, and you can be in maybe a three-month season where you’re like, no, it’s just kind of on the back burner or it’s just so-so. It feels pretty neutral. But if you look at the trajectory of a couple and you ask about their sexual journey together, it is either going to be something where one or both of them are frustrated about the lack of sex or the quality of sex or just how they might feel objectified by their spouse. Or it’s going to be something where they’re like, yeah, like this been an area that we enjoy, but we’ve had to work through some hard things and it’s actually caused us to have to get emotionally vulnerable in a way that we wouldn’t have otherwise. So it matters so much because the way God designed it, even neurochemically, it’s either going to end up bonding you together or being something that becomes a barrier to intimacy.
Hannah
So then I guess the question of like, is it important? It’s like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s a pretty big definition.
Juli
Yeah, but here’s the thing. It’s not just about having sex. It’s about what do you do with your sexual journey? So there are couples who are checking that box and having sex fairly regularly. And, you know, if they’re honest, they’ll be like, meh, you know, like, yeah, but it’s not. And even if you dig deeper, there’s disappointment or there’s insecurity about does my spouse really love me?
Juli (12:36.556)
It’s there: You know, do they accept me for who I am? So it’s always going to have these deeper issues. And so the question is, what are you doing with that sexual journey? Are you addressing it in a way that it really is becoming something that draws you more closely together in enjoying it and exploring, but also working through the difficult things? Or is it something that, again, is sort of like that issue that simmers, you know, kind of on the back stove and just causes resentment long term.
Hannah
Man, and that can be a little bit of a prickly question because I imagine for some of us listening to this who are married, we, if you asked, is it a positive thing in your marriage, neutral or negative? I bet a good portion would say neutral because they almost just like don’t want to address it. Like, I don’t know. It doesn’t seem to be great, but you know, we’ve even had questions before of I feel like I have a pretty great marriage, but we really are, we don’t have a lot of sex.
Isn’t that possible? Could we be having like a great marriage? I don’t know. How would you address more of that?
Juli
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, ultimately it depends on what’s the journey of intimacy related to sex? So if it’s we’re just in a crazy busy season and we’re looking forward to the season where we have more time and energy to invest in this, then it could be very well that it’s like this, you know, we’re not having a lot of sex right now, but this isn’t a barrier between us. Yeah.
Juli (14:11.862)
But if it’s an issue where, wow, I just don’t feel like my husband pursues me or my husband doesn’t feel like I’m pursuing him. I feel missed by him. You know, if there’s issues of pornography, you know, those sort of things, you can’t go long before, you know, like just that resentment or that feeling of I’m not good enough starts to build. And then you start having barriers between you and insecurities instead of intimacy.
Hannah
Yeah, which is not neutral.
Juli
No it’s not.
Hannah
But in the moment, you may feel like, yeah, I don’t know. Okay, so here’s another question, maybe as a follow up, some practical for that. How do I pursue sex with my spouse in a way that honors God and isn’t just lusting after them? Is longing for my spouse sexually considered lusting?
Juli
No, not at all. So there’s two different ways of answering this. One is to say, you know, if you are longing for someone sexually who’s not your spouse and you’re lingering in that, that’s lust. But there is a way that we can lust after our spouses. That’s not good. And that is more like if I objectify my spouse, if I just want to consume them to make me feel better.
Juli (15:29.878)
So, you know, there, for example, there are people who, struggle with pornography, they’ve struggled with sexual addiction, and they’re like, okay, now my spouse will solve that problem for me. And I take that framework of I need sex to feel happy, to feel loved, to feel secure. And instead of looking at pornography, I’m looking at my spouse to meet all those needs. And if he or she doesn’t, then I’m going to be angry and resentful because I need sex to be whole.
And so I would say that that’s a way that you’re lusting after your spouse. And that’s not good because it’s not about wanting to be intimate or appreciating who your spouse is. It’s about, I need him or her for myself. Whereas I think Song of Solomon gives us examples of, you know, like it’s wonderful to adore your spouse and to think of them sexually and to think of their body parts and think about everything you love about them. But they, they, the result and really the goal of it is, I want to be one and appreciate the person God has given me. Like I want to, in some ways, glorify them. Think about their positive qualities and focus on that and call them out and praise them for the things that are wonderful physically and emotionally, spiritually about my spouse. And I want to be excited about being with them sexually. That’s a beautiful thing. God shows us in the scripture that that’s a good thing.
Hannah
Yeah, Juli, I remember learning that from you and Linda going through Passion Pursuit. Like, I remember that whole section where Linda recites in the Song of Solomon the bride, like calling out loud these like pieces of her husband that she’s like thinking of, longing of, focusing on. And that is something that throughout passion pursuit, you encourage. You’re like, yeah, do this, like focus on this, talk about this. And that’s a beautiful longing to build.
Juli (17:30.326)
Yeah, I remember I was teaching on this a few months ago and that morning when I was getting ready to teach on it, I was reading Song of Solomon and then I wrote an ode to Mike. I just sat down and I like wrote this. I know. Yeah, just everything I loved about like his character and his physical body. Yeah. You know, it was like, wow, that’s sort of fun to do. Like, you know, instead of.
Juli (17:59.406)
I think the world pulls you into thinking about what isn’t wonderful or what’s changed over time. Instead, like, what if I look at my husband and think about him in a sensual or erotic way and call out the things I love about him? And so that’s something that is very good for us to be doing.
Hannah
That’s awesome. You’re going to share that with the class? Do you want to read that to us?
Juli
No, I don’t right now, I did share it when I spoke, but.
Hannah
Look at that. There’s a reason to come to Juli’s live events.
Hannah (18:35.726)
She reads her love letters. I wouldn’t have guessed that. I really like that.
Juli (18:49.294)
Hey, friend, you know our heart through all these episodes is to encourage you, to equip you, and really to bring you clarity on important topics as you listen. But here’s the thing. This podcast is actually just a small sample of all that we do at Authentic Intimacy. So I want to take a minute just to invite you to join our email list. It’s free and it’s a great place to get additional resources and value to learn about events, webinars, coaching intensives, and also to give you access to some exclusive content. If this podcast has inspired you to learn more about God’s design for sexuality, then go ahead and join our email list. You can join on our website, authenticintimacy.com or through the link in the show notes. Don’t miss out and sign up today.
Hannah (19:40.462)
Okay, so then let’s go to the opposite extreme. We want to work on this. We want to focus on this. This is important in our marriage. It can’t be neutral. Is it possible to be too focused on sex and marriage? Does it have to be as big of a deal as we’re making it? Shouldn’t our emotional and spiritual intimacy matter more?
Juli
Okay, good question. So the way I described like investing in your sexual journey includes emotional intimacy and spiritual intimacy. It’s not just about what we’re doing with our bodies. And that’s where I think there’s a hyper focus. you know, often couples will focus on frequency and the disconnect they have of how often we should be having sex or the hyper focus on chemistry and attractiveness.
And I really think that’s sort of where the world is always focused. It’s about the body and the physical experience of sex. Whereas what God is calling us to do, if we read all of scripture and all of what it means to become one, it’s integrating that physical with how do I love my spouse as a person? How do I join them in their sexual journey, including how they feel about sex and understanding their wounds from the past and working with them through maybe areas of shame and you know, how do I embrace the whole person? How do we invite God into our sex life and our sexual struggles?
And so I think when we approach sexuality that way, you find that even a couple who for one reason or another might not be having a lot of sex in a particular season or even thinking about it a lot, they are still working towards sexual intimacy.as they talk, as they pray together, as they go through good times and bad times. So, I do think we can hyper-focus on sex when we don’t realize that actually marriage and sexuality are temporary. Like, we’re not taking it to heaven with us.
Juli (21:50.54)
You know, when you deal with realities of aging, if God gives you a long life and your spouse a long life, your bodies are going to change and get to the place where you can’t have sex and you just are two little wrinkly people with a lot of great memories and love for each other. You know, your body parts stop working. You still have that intimacy, but you don’t have sex anymore. And then we come to the point where we’ll lose, one of us will lose the other. And so when we hyper-focus on marriage and sexuality and it becomes all about, you know, life, won’t be full if I don’t have this, we’re missing the fact that, like we said at the very beginning of our conversation, this was all meant to reveal to us something about the beauty, the intimacy, even the ecstasy of what it is to be in covenant relationship with God.
Hannah
It’s kind of interesting thinking about, so in that question, these words that she put together were he emotional intimacy, spiritual intimacy, sexual intimacy. I’m trying to think of a good metaphor, but nothing’s necessarily coming to mind. But the way you’re talking about this of how much these are overlapping, and it’s kind of like, I don’t know, maybe you’ve said this before.
What, like a stool? Like a three-legged stool? Yeah. Have you said this before? Am I stealing this from you?
Juli (23:15.351)
No.
Hannah
But you’re kind of saying like each of these pieces were not exclusively talking about sex. I I remember when a book was really popular when it first came out and in it, this person was talking about this like sex once a week challenge or not once. I don’t know. It was like a certain thing of like, do it this many times. And I feel like you’re you’re talking about the importance of this in marriage, but pushing back on that a little bit. Right. Saying like it isn’t about the doing.
Hannah (23:39.564)
That’s a piece of this. But if you just use it as a checklist, just like any relationship, even like our relationship with God, if you’re like, well, I got my quiet time in, but you’re not actually engaging in the presence of God and like the intimacy you have with Him. It’s like, yeah, you’re doing it, but you’re not even taking in the relationship.
Juli
Yeah. And so there are people who’ve been married for decades who are doing the deed, you know, they’re having sex once a week or twice a week or however many times, but there’s no intimacy. There’s no sense of we’re growing in our understanding of each other. We’re even sharing the emotional experience and the spiritual experience of sex. It’s more like, all right, it’s time, let’s do it. So I would say you know, that is not a great sex life. That’s not the fullness of what God designed this to be.
Hannah
Where do we go when that’s us? Like when the person listening who’s like, man, I clicked on this episode because, you know, I want to grow in this area of my marriage. Or I clicked on this episode thinking I’m doing a pretty good job because of how often we’re having sex. But I’m like, whoa, maybe we’re missing this intimacy part.
Juli (24:53.548)
Yeah, yeah, I think it begins with having that conversation with your spouse, because sometimes one person will feel that and the other one will be like, well, what’s wrong? You know, often it’s the woman who feels that because I think in general women tend to be a little more naturally integrated with this.
Hannah
A little more relationally motivated maybe?
Juli
I think even in terms of society, like men have been taught to compartmentalize their sexuality from everything else. And so often it’s the woman who is like, yeah, we’re having sex, but I really don’t feel connected. I don’t feel seen by you or loved. And, you know, that’s a large part of why we do what we do in terms of discipling people and couples and what it is to actually begin to build intimacy. And it starts with having a bigger vision of what sex can be and should be. Because what I’ve learned over time, a lot of husbands might react to that conversation with, what do mean? I think it’s fine. Like, you’re just trying to fix me, like that sort of thing. But once they start getting a bigger picture of what sex can be, like they want that too. So I remember even being in groups with couples where the guys are like, wow, I never knew that I needed intimacy like this, but it’s helping me understand why I can’t stop looking at pornography, you know, like why I have so much shame around my sexuality. I don’t want it to be that way with my wife. I really want to learn what it is to be present and be known and to love her, not just have sex with her.
Hannah (26:38.198)
Yeah, it’s like never good to hear, at least for me, I don’t know, maybe other people are better at it, if it’s saying like something’s not good, you know, or there’s something I think we need to work on. So I can understand defensiveness in that in marriage, but I think there’s so much of what you’re describing is like this invitation is to something that’s actually full of delusion. It needs more discipline and we need to work, you know, those are pieces, but it’s like, this is actually more of a delightful experience. It is.
Juli (27:07.454)
Yeah, yeah, I mean it is because your sex life at some point like I said is going to decline with age what do you have that you’ve built underneath that and The couples including the men who have learned what it is To be relationally and emotionally connected even in the pursuit of a good sex life Like they’re like, okay, like this is sad that it’s not like it was ten years ago, but what we have today is still precious because my wife knows me more intimately than I’ve ever been known before. And she receives and accepts me for who I am. And so a lot of guys, I think, sort of have a performance narrative around their sexuality and they don’t even realize it. It’s all about how I perform in the bedroom, what I can get. And when they start to realize that their sexuality is far more complicated, and richer than that, it’s like, wow, I want that. It’s worth working towards.
Hannah
Man, I got to think about that for a little bit. The performance, that’s like such an, I’m like, whoa, that’s a whole interesting thought. But okay, I’ll stay on task here. Okay. Another question we got, Juli. This is great, by the way. Well, good. Great job. Thanks for helping us flush a lot of this stuff out and figure it out. I was kind of interested to hear what you were going to say about is emotional and spiritual intimacy more important. So I really liked that answer.
Hannah (28:42.22)
Okay. Another question. I know the Bible talks a lot about sexual sin. But apart from the Song of Solomon, is there anywhere else we can see what God’s vision of a married sex relationship actually looks like?
Juli
Yeah.
Hannah
Which is kind of a funny way to say it. It seems like it talks a lot more about what not to do. And that’s essentially what they’re saying, you know?
Juli
Right. Yeah, I think in Proverbs 5, that’s another part in Scripture where it talks about specifically to men, but it can be applied to women, like, don’t seek water from the streets, like go to your own cistern. that would be like a metaphor. Hey, that would be another, that would be a metaphor they’d understand in that day. But essentially like, sexual pleasure, with your spouse.
Juli (29:27.298)
And then Proverbs says, you know, like, enjoy the wife of your youth and her breasts and like, it’s pretty explicit in terms of giving you the charge to say, this is good, like, foster this, nurture this, enjoy this.
Hannah
I do always love that verse because Proverbs is this book of wisdom. You know, these principles that you’re supposed to look at and be able to apply in all ages, all stages, all situations. It’s like, this is so much of the wisdom of God in this book. And I just love that there’s a verse that says like, may your wife’s breasts satisfy you.
Juli
Yeah, I know. Isn’t that cool?
Hannah
It’s like, listen, the breast even made it into the proverb’s wisdom, all right? It’s important.
Juli
Yeah, be intoxicated by her love. So I think that talks specifically about it. I think also, like, let’s remember what I said again in the beginning of this conversation, that when we want to understand what a healthy marriage looks like and healthy sexuality look like, we need to look at what Christ’s relationship with this church looks like. You know, “God, Sex, and Your Marriage”, like I break it down into four pillars of this is what God’s love looks like and this is what our sexual relationship should look like.
Juli (30:37.204)
So, faithfulness and the importance of faithfulness as a foundation, a growing journey of intimacy, of intimate knowing, the growing capacity to love unselfishly. And then finally, I think the growing capacity to enjoy pleasure. And so, when we look at our relationship with God, we see really commands and charges to experience all four of those pillars. And I think there’s a direct parallel to what healthy marriage and healthy sex look like, because God modeled the covenant of marriage after His covenant with us.
So, yes, you, it might not be as straightforward as this verse in Proverbs that uses the word breast. But you’re, mean, saying if you look at all these pieces that are at scripture, it’s tucked into so many pieces.
Hannah
Yeah.
Juli (31:36.332)
Right. You know, like even, you know, sometimes when I’m speaking on this, I will go through 1 Corinthians 13, which a lot of people are very familiar with, like love is patient, love is kind. And when I’m speaking to an audience, I’ll say love is patient and have them respond in the bedroom. You know, love is kind in the bedroom. And they’re like, wow, I’ve never read 1 Corinthians 13 that way.
And I think we’re always looking for these specific passages that only talk about sex, instead of realizing that everything the scripture tells us in terms of what it is to love each other, like that applies directly to how we navigate sex within marriage.
Hannah
Juli, I’ve learned so much from you and from some of my other wise friends over the years of the beauty of God’s revelation in Scripture. I mean, it is something that I think growing up with the Bible I just missed out on in a way. Like, you just kind of read what it says and you take it for face value. I don’t know, just like what the literal words say and then kind of move on.
And I remember reading this book at some point over the last few years that was going through Song of Solomon, and I had heard you teach this book through “Passion Pursuit”, through Authentic Intimacy, a lot of what we’re talking about here about like sexuality in marriage. Like that’s what this book is about. And there was this whole chapter about how there’s this other metaphor within it about our intimacy with God. And it was breaking down all these verses and showing this like deeper layer with that.
And it blew my mind. I remember texting you and being like, could this be true? Like just really trying to put together like, man, how could one verse, one chapter, one story have so many different pieces of God being revealed? And I’ve heard you say a couple of times, like God is really good at multitasking. And that always, I like have put that in the back of my head because I think it’s the funniest sense, but it’s so true.
Hannah (33:38.904)
But all that to say, like, you know, this question of saying, all we get is the song of Solomon. Like, first off, like you said, there’s so many other layers, but second off, man, don’t just flip through the song of Solomon. to have this whole book dedicated to intimacy, it’s unreal.
Juli
I think that’s so huge. It really is. Like, there’s no other book in scripture that is only about a human relationship. Like, no other book out of the 66 in our canon, that’s the only one that is devoted to describing something, know, exclusively about human relationship. And so, for us to say, oh yeah, we have Song of Solomon, where are we? It’s like, no, no, like, that’s significant that thousands of years ago, you know, God inspired this erotic poetry so that we could never get away from the fact that God had created erotic pleasure.
Hannah
And that somehow it’s connected and teaching us about this intimacy with Him. Wild ride. I had that same experience, I don’t know, maybe two years ago on the podcast. You had on my friend Robin Luton, who wrote a book on Proverbs 31. Very similar. We take it as like, is how to live as a wife. And she was teaching these deeper meetings about how it’s also this metaphor between like our bridal, groomed relationship with God.
Hannah (35:05.378)
And man, it’s just unreal. It’s all that to say. It’s a great question, but I love this thought of these pieces of Scripture that are talking about this are deeper than we even know.
Juli
I know, it’s crazy.
Hannah
Well, so we got through all these questions that we got, Juli, but I’m sure there’s plenty more. You know, men and women who listening to this, who are wanting to in some way grow in this area in their marriage, you know, saying like, I want to be more intentional. I’m realizing this can’t be neutral. Do you feel like you have a encouragement for them as you’re wrapping this up of like, man, how do we just kick some of this off in our marriage?
Juli
You know, I really feel like having a vision for maturity is important. So instead of sort of a pass-fail test, really thinking about this in terms of in everything of life, God calls Christians to be growing, to be surrendering more themselves to Him, to be more and more transformed by His truth, to be more and more enraptured by His love, to become more and more people of love.
And so, you know, what we do at Authentic Intimacy and on this podcast is to sometimes just give a vision like this for where God wants to take us. And instead of just staying stuck and feeling frustrated or kind of like, blah, with your sexuality, like, what does it look like to take a step towards a bigger picture of sexual maturity in your marriage and to have a vision for where God might be taking you?
Juli (36:50.218)
Again, not just so that you can have a better sex life. That’s a great goal, but a greater goal is that through the journey of sex, that He’s actually teaching you more about what it is to be in covenant, first with your spouse, but then ultimately with Him. And the beauty of that, you know, I think sometimes people get freaked out when we say our sexuality says something about God.
Hannah
We’ve just had it so disconnected from anything spiritual.
Juli
Yeah, but you know, God wants us to experience the deepest and greatest pleasure in His presence when we’re worshiping Him. He wants us to be growing in a sense of being fully known and received by Him. So there are elements of a good sexual relationship that really are reflection of the depth of what God has for His covenant people.
Hannah
Man, wow, that’s good, Juli. It’s a lot to think about and process. And I hope that answering some of these questions, people walk away feeling encouraged by that. It’s like a great challenge.
Juli
Thanks for processing it with me.
Juli (38:01.496)
So I’m wondering, what was the biggest takeaway for you as you listened to this conversation? I know for Hannah, what I said about sex never being neutral was pretty eye-opening, but maybe for you it was accepting the fact that you can delight in your spouse sexually and that actually pleases God. Or maybe it was understanding that God’s heart is to give us good things and that sex is a good thing that like other blessings can be misused.
Well, whatever your main takeaway is, I would really encourage you to let this just be one step on the journey. Don’t stop here with your learning because there’s so much more. In our show notes, I’ve linked to two different resources depending on where you are in your journey with this topic. If you’re the person who’s been struggling to embrace God’s design for sex as actually good, you’re going to want to take a look at our resource, Overcoming Shame and Fear in Marriage.
And if you’re the person who has maybe been pressuring your spouse to have a bunch of sexual activity without the real intimacy and emphasis on connection, then you’re gonna wanna look at another resource called Help, How Much Sex is Normal for a Married Couple. Both of these are gonna address areas of needed healing and clarity in your life and ultimately draw you back to the truth of scripture and God himself. So I encourage you to check those out. Next week we’re gonna go a little deeper in exploring what it is to have the greatest intimacy in the world, we’re gonna talk about Jesus. But specifically, we’re gonna talk about how we tend to edit Jesus and not pursue and embrace Him for all that He is. So I’m super excited to share this conversation with you. It was eye-opening for me, and I think it’s gonna be real blessing for you. So don’t miss it. Thanks so much for joining me, and I look forward to more Java next week on Java with Juli.
