Historically, inside and outside the church, male sexuality has been talked about as a purely orgasm-driven experience.
But is it possible we have oversimplified the male sexual experience? What if there’s more to the way men think and feel about sex than we’ve previously considered?
Dr. Corey Allan joined Juli for a very different conversation about male sexuality.
Prefer to listen? Listen to the full episode here.
Juli (00:01.134)
Is it possible that we may have oversimplified our understanding of male sexuality? You know, I’ve been researching biblical sexuality for a while now, and while I think we’re familiar with how female sexuality has often been ignored or sidelined, especially maybe within church communities, I think we may have also reduced our understanding of male sexuality, thinking about it as just something to do with the body.
Well, if you haven’t met me yet, my name is Juli Slattery and you are listening to Java with Juli, a listener supported podcast, which is an outreach of authentic intimacy, a ministry dedicated to helping people make sense of God and sexuality. Today, we’re going to be diving deeper into male sexuality. We’re going to go beyond just the body and hormones and we’ll discuss some of the complexities that are often ignored with male sexuality.
Joining me is returning guest, Dr. Corey Allan. He is the host of Sexy Marriage Radio. And you’ll hear us discuss what drives men sexually and what they’re typically told to focus on related to sex and whether or not they really do want sex all the time. It’s gonna be an interesting conversation. So grab your Java and let’s dive into my discussion with Dr. Corey Allan.
Juli (01:21.464)
Well, Corey, you are becoming a regular on Java with Juli, which is great.
Corey
Anytime I get a chance to hang with Juli and have some coffee, I’m in.
Juli
Well, I love our conversations. I love your perspective and I love that we can talk about things that even sometimes we don’t see eye eye on and hash it out. I know that’s how I learn. yeah.
Corey
That’s how we all learn, actually.
Juli
I think you’re right. Have we ever met in person?
Corey (01:51.022)
Yes, we were at the Marriage Collective and that was one of the first times we recorded because you were doing a bunch in person and so that was… I got the chance to join you there.
Juli
And I think you reminded me of that last time we talked to you. Now it’s jogging something. So.
Corey
Well, that was when our conversation went in ways, in a frankness, I think you weren’t quite ready for. And I got to watch in real time your full body recovery of that.
Juli
Well, I have grown since then. think it’s a little harder to make me blush, but you could probably still do it. Yeah. Well, I think the last time we talked, we talked about like, how do you talk to your partner about sex, about initiating? And that was a great conversation. And I wanted to talk this time specifically about male sexuality, which you are an expert in.
Corey
Absolutely.
Juli (02:52.03)
And you meet with many married couples, with many men, and I think there is a sense to where we believe like female sexuality is incredibly complicated, it’s multifaceted, you know, it’s emotional, it’s spiritual, it’s body image, and with men it’s just sort of this simplistic, all about the physical urges and desire, and we tend to simplify male sexuality. Maybe to our fault.
So I guess we could start there. Like, to what extent do we oversimplify male sexuality?
Corey
Well, I mean, a lot of it is just going to be the way society has portrayed the masculine journey when it comes to sex, that it’s that idea of anytime, all the time, when the wind blows, that he’s ready to go. And on some levels, depending on age, all myths start from some levels of truths. Otherwise, they wouldn’t survive. They’d be quickly dismissed.
Our brain has a tendency to want to try to simplify things that are complicated rather than wrestle with the complication of it. And so there’s an element of, on some levels, particularly for adolescents and young adults, young men, there’s a lot more levels of testosterone and biology hormones happening that do fuel that myth. But then when you get further into it and then this is where you and I live in the world of particularly in marriage, that doesn’t just ring true. There’s a lot more complexity in there that men aren’t just, biologically they might still be, absolutely, let’s go all the time. But if it’s a sex life that’s one-sided or it’s just a going through the motions or it’s only focused on his orgasm, which is absolutely the one-sidedness.
Corey (04:53.034)
Most of the time I have men that would be like, that’s not what I want. I want something more that’s not just orgasm driven. I want something that’s about her. So you start getting into a deeper understanding of the dynamic, which then I think uncovers. Let’s start it this way, Juli, with a correlation of, I think a lot of women–tell me if I’m wrong on this–because this can be a myth as well. A lot of times women have a lot of anxiety around their sexuality. And so it suppresses quote unquote their sexuality, at least their expressiveness of it or their desire to understand it more. Would you agree?
Juli (05:39.682)
Yeah, I would agree. Mm-hmm.
Corey (05:52.534)
Okay, I think a lot of men have anxiety around their sexuality, but it amps it up as a way to hide it. Rather than, know, I just, follow in the societal path rather than really explore the complexity of what do I really want when it comes to my sex life, because it’s more than just an orgasm a lot of times. It’s, want more than that. I want the connection. I want the depth. I want the sacredness that’s created and cultivated in marriage. And so I think understanding anxiety fuels both sides of the equation. It just plays out differently in men.
Juli
Yeah, I would also wonder how much identity plays into that, even for young men, that sometimes culture messages are to be manly, to be masculine, to prove your worth. You have to conquer, you have to be sexual. So can you talk a little bit about maybe some of the pressures that feed into that?
Corey
Well, there’s definitely a component that I think a lot of us can be introduced to the concept and the aspect of our lives with our sex lives through that lens. It’s the locker room mentality. It’s the mob mentality of men. And a lot of this more often is built on naiveté and ignorance than actual experience. If I go from my experiences, most of the kids I was around growing up,
It’s not like they were speaking from experience, but they put off the persona that I knew all about this. And it’s like, no, you really don’t. Oh, that absolutely plays into it, which then further fuels the dynamic that plays out in the tension between husband and wife, because she’s buying into the idea too of, he always wants it all the time. Any overture means he needs it right then and there. And so it…it starts to play into this dilemma of, how do I live this way? How do I engage better to help teach a different map when maybe it’s going against what society believes? Because a lot of times in the men’s groups I’m around, there’s a lot of times where I’ll know some information about somebody because of a prior conversation.
Corey (07:56.386)
And you can see them wrestling with how do I bring this up with a larger group because I feel like I’m an anomaly. But once they do, in the sense of, yeah, my sex life is functional, but it’s not, you know, I’ve struggled with my libido. I struggle with my interest. I struggle. And when he brings that up, actually, a lot of times there’s several men that’d be like, thank you. Me too. Me too. And it’s just, there’s this element of, don’t know how to talk about it either.
Juli
Mm-hmm. Yeah. One of the things that I’ve heard men talk about often is the word performance. So it’s not just that men are supposed to desire sex all the time, but this message they get that it’s all about your performance. Where does that come from? How does that play out?
Corey
Well, some of that fits into the male design, if you will. think the masculine in a lot of ways is intended to divide, conquer, rule, subdue, if you go from what Adam was kind of tasked with, right? Be fruitful and multiply, you know, all of that. It’s the go create, it’s the go perform. And so I think there’s an element of design in there. But again, this is what’s interesting about this conversation, Juli.
It’s not just male-centric on that though. That’s men and women all each have masculine and feminine in them. And we cultivate back and forth between them. Men utilize their feminine as well in their daily life, just like women utilize their masculine. My wife is a tax accountant. She spends a majority of tax season in her masculine because she’s out making things happen. She’s managing things. You know, that’s not male female.
Juli
Mm-hmm.
Corey (09:46.05)
That’s just the masculine design, you will, or trait and that energy. And so there’s an element of that fuels this element for men of, well, in my sex life, I have to have a conquest mindset too, rather than how as men do I learn to maybe get into my feminine aspects, my receiving, my follow the flow, my…you know, that aspect of it, nurturing something, caring for something different as it pertains to my wife, as it pertains to myself and that aspect of my life. And that’s where you start getting into the polarities, which really makes married sex interesting.
Juli
I’m wondering, Corey, is this like a developmental process for men? You know, like, I think in working with women, I see sort of a trajectory of women feeling like insecure, as you mentioned, anxious about their sexuality. And over time, where there’s a healthy growth and trajectory, she becomes like more okay with her body, more free to experience sexually.
I wonder if that same thing is true in terms of what it looks like for men to mature. Maybe they start this journey with, it’s all about the physical, it’s all about my performance. And growth means they actually in some ways become more stereotypically feminine where they can see the connection between like the physical, the emotional, the spiritual.
Corey
All of our lives can be put in the framework of growth or not, you will, maturing or not. And that’s the one thing I love about the mechanism of married sex is it is a process and a dynamic that really actually requires our growth.
Corey (11:57.27)
It’s not just about the growth. Because as soon as, you if you look at the, I mean, I’ve been with Pam, my wife for 31 years now, and we talk about, we have five marriages, not actually on paper, but we have five distinct chapters. And a lot of those are situational based on family, as far as pre-kids, post-kids, maturity. There’s a lot of factors that are the quantifiers of the different chapters, but it’s a growth through it. It’s an evolution of each chapter because we are not the same people that were in chapter one in our current chapter five. And now we’re on the cusp of chapter six, because we have a high school senior and he’s the youngest. And so we’re about to hit a different framework of our marriage. And so I think there’s an element that men, sometimes we fall victim to the myth of, hey, but at least it’s sex rather than, okay, but hold on. What kind of sex is it? Is it really in line with what I want?
Is it me being expressive in the way I really want? and am capable of, or do I still fall into the machismo bravado, I’ll take anything, anytime, rather than really, would you? Because one of the main frustrations I hear when couples come to see me is they’ll start talking about a dynamic where she’ll take the stance of all he ever wants is sex. And then he gets in this dilemma of, what I really want is you to want this with me.
And so that’s a deeper issue. That’s not just sex. And then when she is interested in it, he gets caught in this, okay, wait, is this about me? Is this, you know, so it’s just, it gets a lot more complex and sophisticated than just a simple, well, maybe you should have sex more or maybe you should schedule it. And sometimes those can be really helpful, but they’re not talking about the deeper process going on.
Juli
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there are a lot of men who have been married for 30 years and they’re still stuck in that same way of thinking. Like their body is changing, maybe they’re not as responsive sexually, they have lower testosterone, but it’s sort of like they just shut down because they don’t know that there’s another way to approach this.
Juli (14:15.182)
And I know like in our groups, I’ve seen men sort of like this light bulb go off of, wait, you mean like, it’s okay for me to want intimacy? Like, it’s okay for me not to just think about this like an act. And it’s like a huge aha moment for them. I don’t know if you’ve experienced.
Corey
Yeah, and it’s actually a really good opportunity for me to learn how to serve her in this way. That it’s not just about me. I mean, that’s, I’ve got a couple different guys I’ve worked with that we’ve painted the picture that as they’ve grown more comfortable to where this is more about us and her than it is me. That their goal actually becomes, metaphorically speaking, I think one guy’s actually done this.
But metaphorically speaking, they want to conduct themselves in the manner that they are a man that is capable of meeting their wife at the doorway to their master bedroom wearing nothing but has a towel across his arm. And he says, good evening. I am Jeeves and I am here to serve you in whatever way you would like this evening. Right. And it’s just this element of this is just about her more so than it is him. But there’s a boldness there that goes counter to what a lot of men were experiencing growing up.
Juli
Let ask you, when you say that, I’m thinking if it were reversed, and I think a lot of people in earlier generations had that, where a woman’s perspective was, I’m supposed to show up naked and be like, how can I serve you? So why is that healthy for a man to have that perspective?
Corey (16:01.292)
Well, it’s not the sense of I’m serving as in an obligation. It’s in this, I want for you what you want for you here. It truly is a vibrancy because this, if you look at the arc of as married life goes and as our sexuality often evolves, one of the, guess you could call it insidious if you will, Juli, is women’s sexual prime or peak quote unquote is much, much later than men’s.
You know, it’s about 40s, 50s is when women really start kind of getting more comfortable with, I’m really good with who I am. It moves from, you know, this whole, I’m not sure how I feel about this to, I know what I can do. I know what I’m capable of. There’s a power and a presence that then brings about a prowess, I think, in a lot of women, particularly in married sex. This is the couples I work with. I’ve got a lot of women that have moved into ‘I know what I can do with you and to you’. And that’s not at all this obligation. I’m just here for you. There’s a power behind that. And so there’s an element of, as men evolve, what happens with this insidious is things don’t always work as easy or as firmly as they used to. So now my identity is in jeopardy, if you will.
Juli (17:29.486)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Corey
Rather than, hold on a second, I’m still more capable to do all kinds of sexual things, whether or not my penis cooperates. I can be involved in a lot of sexual things with my wife, regardless of how my body’s operating. There’s other parts of my body do operate as well as my presence, my giving, my service, my, you know, all of it plays out in this. And so it’s calling both men and women in married sex to growth to where it’s about what I want, it’s about what you want, and it’s about what we both want. It’s not just the one-sided, which is where that’s one of the destructive aspects that a lot of us bring into marriage, that it’s a one-sided affair.
Juli
So, you know, if you’re talking to a married couple, they don’t necessarily have to be in the 40s and 50s, they could be younger. But what are some of the things that they may do to keep themselves stuck in that more immature perspective? And what are some things that they can do to get out of it?
Corey
Well, a lot of it is they talk about the symptoms and try to fix those rather than, what’s really going on here? Because let’s keep it on the male side of the equation. Because I think a lot of times what fuels this dilemma of societal norm of men are interested in sex all the time, anytime, is because a lot of the way men have expressed their sexuality isn’t fueled by things that have anything to do with sex.
Corey (19:08.622)
They turn to sex when they’re bored. They turn to sex when they’re stressed. They turn to sex when they’re lonely. Those are components of us as human beings. That’s part of the human existence, right? Stress, bored, lonely, hungry, whatever. But when I can learn to satisfy my loneliness, not just through sex, I actually create something that’s more full to share in sex lives rather than I need you to help me feel better about myself. I need to learn to feel better about myself and then express that with you. so younger couples, when you can start looking at the complexities of how they are having sex, what brings it about, who usually initiates it, what’s that about, why, and then you start getting on, start uncovering, okay, what’s fueling that?
Because that’s also a lot of times men are sexualized early through porn and through the different avenues that are out there with Hollywood and movies and everything, not just flat out pornography. There’s also a sexualization through TV and everything. And that fuels this, well, okay, this is just a way I can feel an escape from this. This is a way I feel a little relief from this. And so it starts embedding, well, that’s what I’ll do. I’ll just, I’m not expressing my sex life. I’m actually, trying to soothe my anxieties here. And some of those need to be found how to be done in other ways to then make my sex life where I steer it cleaner and it’s more vibrant or pure.
Juli (20:56.206)
Hey friend, I hope you’re enjoying this episode. My desire here at Authentic Intimacy is to encourage you to bring clarity and equip you so that you have the tools that you really need to walk in the beauty of God’s design as an integrated, sexual, and surrendered child of God. And one of the ways that we do this is through our podcast, but we have so much more content available for you. So as you’re listening, check out the show notes for a link to sign up to our email list.
When you join that email list, you’re gonna get informed about additional resources, you’ll find out about upcoming events, webinars, and coaching intensives, and you will also gain some access to exclusive content. If this podcast has ignited a passion in you to learn more about God and sexuality, then I encourage you to sign up today.
Juli
Do you feel like most people have the capacity to make that connection on their own? Like to really be thoughtful enough to say, I’m actually using married sex for things that shouldn’t be used for.
Corey
I think it requires shows like yours, shows like mine, coaching, books, conversations with real people. Where all of a sudden somebody that’s further along will bring it up or you get introduced to an idea. And then hopefully we have the courage to go, okay, how am I doing this? know, cause that’s, this is a phrase I’ve been using. This actually just came up in our church on Sunday and I’m kind of starting to apply it. And I like the terminology of
Juli
Mm-hmm.
Corey (22:30.702)
I need to ask myself when it comes to my sex life or my marriage, know, what’s oftentimes like, what’s my biggest problem? You what’s our biggest problem in our marriage? And the answer needs that to be, I am. You know, what’s the biggest problem in my sex life? I am. What if I’m actually honest about that? Because there is a component of truth in that answer. I’m coming at it unrealistically. I’m coming at it not from the best in me.
Juli
Mm-hmm.
Corey (23:00.202)
I’m coming at it as an anxiety relief. I’m coming at it as a loneliness thing only. Or, you know, if I can start at least be more aware of that, that’s going to open myself up to a better conversation with my wife about this and a better conversation with myself about this. Because what’s helped me, Juli, on this journey, because I’ve done this and still continue to do this, is pornography was a part of my world, largely because of boredom and loneliness. Being raised as a latch kid, so I was, you know, got myself to school on my own, came home to an empty home on every day. And so I had tons of time on my hands and this was fortunately before internet, but there was still just all kinds of boredom and loneliness in my world. And so what I have recognized is when I am bored, I need to be better at how I address that.
Juli
Mm-hmm.
Corey
And at the very least, it starts with acknowledging to myself, I’m really bored right now. Right? Because the old Corey would have made overtures, let’s go with the loneliness side of it. The old Corey would have gone with overtures towards Pam about, hey, I’d start setting the stage for sex somehow. You know, kind of covertly, subtly, suggestively, know, hinting around, not be bold about it.
Juli (24:21.102)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Corey (24:26.584)
Just kind of see if I could manufacture it some way. Rather than if I’m lonely, I can call my wife and say, I’m really lonely. I’d love to hang out with you. And that doesn’t necessarily mean sex anymore now that I’m 53. It just means I’m lonely and I like your companionship. And that’s a difference to me about realizing what I’m really after here isn’t just a sexual act. It’s a companion, it’s a partner.
Juli
Yeah.
Corey (24:56.044)
It’s the help meet that is my wife, right? It’s the bigger story to grow in more comfort with myself, to be honest about that, changes how we actually then express ourselves in all the aspects of our marriage.
Juli
Yeah, I remember you saying something in a previous conversation that I think is really helpful. You said pay attention to what happens when you don’t get sex. You know, like you’ve initiated and your spouse says no. Like that really shows you whether you’re using sex for something other than just intimacy. You’re using it for boredom. You’re using it for stress, for loneliness, whatever it might be to feel love. Pay attention to what happens. So I thought that was super insightful.
Corey
I continue to agree with that, particularly, I guess, since I said it. But it’s also realizing there’s a complexity and a nuance in this because I don’t know, tell me what you think about this, Juli. Will our motivation towards a sexual encounter with our spouse genuinely be 100 % for intimacy or is there also still a boredom, a loneliness, an anxiety, a stress in there too? I like to think of things as a piece of pie.
Right? I got slivers. Some are bigger than others. I just need to be aware of as many as I can to make sure they’re smaller in my motivation. Because if I’m coming at it from intimacy and true connection, then I handle how it goes better versus if I come at it and I’m not aware covertly, I’m looking for stress release. Well, then I have a different energy that I’m bringing to the equation.
Juli (26:44.408)
Right, and we’re always multifaceted. It’s never like we only purely have one motivation in anything, including sex. But I think it’s more like as we grow and mature, it prompts the question, okay, well, how do I handle loneliness? Like what’s another way of addressing that feeling or what’s another way of addressing feelings of insecurity and do you love me?
Corey
And again, that’s where maturity kind of kicks in and now we’ve got lots of different ways to deal with it other than just pouting and being upset. And for men in particular, and I’ll make this message clearly just straight towards the men, we need other men to help with our loneliness. Our wife is not there to help us not feel lonely. Eve was not created just to solve loneliness. That’s not the point. mean, scripture talks about Adam was alone and it’s not good for man to be alone.
Juli
Yeah.
Corey (27:46.53)
So that means in some instance, the human condition has an element of struggle when we are alone. When I can take some of the pressure off of my wife to fulfill myself and by doing that with other circles of people in healthy ways, I just add a different dynamic to my marriage that makes it a lot more whole for everybody.
Juli (28:09.514)
Mm-hmm. So there are wives who feel like, I wish my husband would mature. And again, this can be a situation where you’ve been married for a few years and you’re married to a younger man, or this could be a situation where you’ve been married for a long time and you still feel like he’s stuck in that, you know, sex is just physical, not really having the capacity to grow past that. So I guess my question would be, what are women doing that might reinforce the wrong things? What do they say or do to reinforce him staying stuck? So why don’t we start with that and then maybe we can shift to what can they do differently to help at least prompt the invitation to a more mature perspective.
Corey
First off, I’m going to be one that theoretically speaking has the belief that in marriage, neither spouse ever has high ground on the other. Anytime I start thinking, man, I’m so much more mature than Pam. I need to recognize, no, I am not.
Juli
Mm-hmm.
Corey (29:21.09)
My immaturity or lack of growth just plays out just differently than I see it in her.
Corey (29:26.488)
And so if you have a wife that is frustrated because the husband is not approaching the sex life in a mature way and she feels like she is, I’m gonna say probably not. And so that’s where you start. It’s like, okay, so how am I culpable in the dynamic? And just be honest with myself more on.
Juli
Can you give an example? Yeah, I mean, can you give an example of like how women often don’t see their own immaturity in this?
Corey
Well, I mean, the one that immediately comes to mind is oftentimes early on, a wife will take the stances in the moves of, all you ever want is this, or I’m never going to be enough. Or, and what that does is it makes the focus completely on his level of drive or interest, not at all facing hers. It makes him as the problem rather than, okay, wait.
First off, ask the bigger question. I do this with a lot of wives in my office that have ever used the phraseology of, I’m never gonna be enough. I’m never enough for him. I try to get her just really examined. Yeah, you’re probably not. Is that a bad thing? Is that a deal breaker? Is that really that big a deal? Or hold on a second. Is someone ever enough for another person actually? Is that what we’re intended to be? No.
Corey (30:59.618)
Then ask the better questions to come to grips. Cause what it does is it settles me down to face the dynamic better rather than how do I solve the problem? Because a lot of times what we’re doing is we’re talking and we fight in marriage about the problem rather than really addressing the issue, if you will, the bigger dynamic, because I also fully believe, and this might be a, bursting of bubbles for a lot of people that are listening to this in your audience. But I also believe marriage, particularly sex and marriage, is not something we ever solve.
Juli
Okay.
Corey
Right? It’s we figure some things out. I equate it to hiking mountains, like climbing mountains. You never master a mountain. You master yourself in the climbing of the mountain. Because there’s too many variables that are at play when you’re climbing mountains. Mastering self might mean, I’ve had this happen 50 feet from the summit and storms started coming in. Well, mastering self meant get down.
Juli (32:06.968)
Yeah, great. Yep. Yeah. I’ve there too.
Corey
Yeah, because the energy you feel in that is scary as can be. Well, I can see that as a failure or I see that as that was a real moment of maturing and wisdom. Because the 18-year-old me would have been, I can still make it. But the 32-year-old at the time was like, yeah, I’m getting down. And I don’t see the trip as a failure.
Juli
Mm-hmm.
Corey
It didn’t satisfy everything maybe, but that’s also what marriage is. Things don’t always get satisfied. when I can look at it as what’s being uncovered in me here, what’s really going on with me as the wife in this equation? Am I even grasping what I really want? Because I come across a lot of younger wives that when it comes to their sex life and I’ll ask, well, what do you really want? I don’t know. Okay.
Well, it’s either I really don’t know or it’s a way for me not to have to figure it out.
Juli (33:13.122)
Hmm.
Corey
And so if it truly is, I don’t know, well, what are you doing to try to figure that out? And when you can grow in that, now all of sudden I’m presenting a different self to this equation that takes it off of, it’s about him. No, it’s also about me. It’s my unwillingness to really express or seek or ask the questions that I need to ask of myself. It’s my naiveté as it comes to my own body or desires or interests. And if you follow that forward, that’s what creates this dilemma of neither one of you are really bringing yourself to it real well.
Juli (33:58.658)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I think women make the assumption that we’re more integrated than men naturally because we’re more likely to talk about our feelings related to sexuality. We may be more likely to say, if the relationship’s not good, we’re not okay entering into sexual intimacy. But what you’re saying is you’re probably less integrated than you realize. Like, you probably have a, yeah, you probably have a lot less insight into your own insecurities and how those play out than you may think.
Corey
Yeah, we all have blind spots. And so sometimes I have the courage to ask myself the question of, the things that come at me, particularly in marriage, the things that are frustrating to me about Pam and the way she relates to me, okay, what’s that actually uncovering in me that I could be blind to? In me, not her. Because it’s real easy to make it about her. Well, if she would just fill in the blank. Well. Okay. Let me let you in on something I can probably speak for you too, because we’ve got history here in married life as far as longevity. The things that I used to really, really frustrated about with her that are now gone, some of that actually scares me when it’s like she’s bringing herself better. She handles her life better. She’s more upfront about stuff better, which requires more of me.
Juli
Yeah.
Corey (35:28.788)
Because she’s not going to tolerate immaturity in that area or not following through in that area or in congruence in character in that area. Whereas before it would have been like, whatever. But now that she’s like, whoa, she’s got her act together a whole lot more. Wow, I bet her too.
Yeah, yeah, no, you have to grow to the level of your spouse.
And that’s what makes it a people-growing machine is because it’s required pretty much as we’re evolving. There’s a tension there that just requires our growth.
Juli
Yeah, okay, so what are some of the things that a wife can do that would invite their husband into sort of that fuller sense of intimacy, working away from the simplistic view of performance and things like that?
Corey
Well, some of it, excuse me, some of it probably starts in the equation of how do I start bringing up this aspect of my life and my marriage outside of just the bedroom and the act itself? How do we talk about this? How do we express things? How do we be playful? How is there an energy and an inner play outside of the times we actually quote unquote are having sex? Because I’m gonna put it as we always can be having sex.
Corey (36:44.994)
We’re not always gonna be having intercourse, but we can always be sexual with each other. And so how do I bring myself forward in this, which also means I have to confront what are my fears, what are my insecurities, what are my limitations, and I can, and then in the doing so of confronting those, they can start to become strengths, right? It’s that element of I know who I am, and it’s good judgment that you would want to do this with me.
Right? That you would want to be involved with my sex, our sex life with me. And I can carry myself in a manner that’s more conversational about it. That’s willing to have the difficult conversations. And then is also willing to be able, because here’s the difference. If you look at it as to move beyond, it’s never enough for you. And you move it into the, Hey, I feel like some of what we’re trying to do, it’s not as satisfying to me. And if I also have, here’s some things that I think would be. Now I can start to see, I have a husband that’s willing to collaborate towards that goal that includes me or no, it’s just really about him.
Juli
Yeah. And I think some of it is like as women, we want to know what’s going on in our husbands. You know, sometimes they get the deer in the headlight look to be like, how are you feeling? Or what do you think about this? Or, you know, like we sort of probe wanting to know where the insecurity is. But like that’s a real desire of a wife is, you know, I think for husbands, like you said, a real desire for them is I want you to enjoy this too. A real desire for a wife is I want more than your body. Like, I want to know your insecurities. I want to know just your emotions and how you feel about me and how you feel about yourself. And some men can go there and some men can’t. it’s not just a younger marriage.
Juli (38:57.272)
I think a lot of older marriages, like women are encountering this, like for example, when their husband’s bodies are changing. Maybe there’s impotence or things like that. And it’s like, he just shuts down and she’s like, I want to know what’s wrong. I want to talk about this. I don’t know if you can speak to like, how can a wife be more inviting in, I want to know who you are as a person.
Corey
There’s a lot of things to come to mind with this, First off, it’s the element of what her desire is may not ever be satisfied just like what his desire is may not be satisfied. Because sometimes if I get everything, know, because how often do we have in married life where I actually do hear something and it’s like, I don’t know if I wanted to know all of that. I did want to know some of it, but sometimes we don’t want to know all behind the curtain. And I think there’s wisdom in that.
But what I’m hearing you describe on a larger scale is I want something to where I see you more, I experience you more, and it’s not just in acts that we do together. It’s also in the life that’s interwoven and intertwined with our emotions and our mental capacities and our conversation and companionship. So it’s the whole picture, not just sex. Right?
Corey (40:21.92)
And so some of it is just okay, if you look at it as a pie, where do we have that in some areas and not in others? And how do I have the courage to bring those up? Like, feel like I don’t ever, I see you wrestle with emotions, but I don’t ever hear you talk about them. And I would really love to know them. And it’s just kind of an invitation that’s cleanly, plainly spoken. And he steps into that or he doesn’t. And you just see, and you just kind of carry yourself. If he doesn’t.
Juli
Mm-hmm.
Corey (40:49.848)
How do you hold onto yourself? Just like if he’s rejected with sex, like we talked about earlier, what comes up in you when he doesn’t? Because it’s either he doesn’t know how to, or he’s scared to. Okay, both of those are probably true to degrees, but how do I hold onto myself? Because this is one of the things I hear, I’ve actually seen this happen in session a couple different times where a wife is desperate to know what a guy really thinks, what her husband really thinks.
Corey (41:18.516)
And then he tells her. What! And she really overreacts. Which means you didn’t really want to know. It’s scary. And so you have become culpable in the way you react and that shuts down a dynamic. Not that anybody’s at fault, it’s just the dynamic. And so I see things in relationship lenses all the time. And so if I’m wanting something and I’m not getting it, I play a part in why I don’t.
Juli (41:24.716)
Hmm. Right. Right.
Corey (41:46.702)
And so I need to figure that out in me.
Juli
Yeah, I heard you say two things. Like, first of all, we’re not going to get everything we want in marriage. And on the woman side, that might be, I’m not going to get the level of emotional connection with my husband that I really crave. But the second thing you said there, I think is important is sometimes we’ve trained our spouse over time that we’re not safe, because he shares something and like you said, we overreact or we judge or we criticize without even knowing we’re doing it. And then he learns, okay, not going to do that again.
I can’t go there. She can’t handle that. Just like she’s doing the same thing with him in other areas of like, I can’t do that with her, you know.
Corey
So it’s just what we’re teaching people how to treat us all the time. And I just need to make sure I’m teaching better. so, I mean, that’s a component of it. And then the other is, because this is one of the things that a lot of times I hear from wives that the emotional component, the spiritual component and the mental component, really are interwoven in the sexual component much more in a lot of wives and women than they are in men. And that’s just percentages. not going far into the continuum.
Juli (43:14.307)
Wait, you’re saying that in reality they’re more interwoven with a woman or that she’s more aware of how?
Corey
What I’ll hear is for women, the emotional connectivity relates more to sex, whereas men, sex relates more is the path, know, it’s the whole yin and the yang, if you will. That this is related to that. then both men and women, most of the time, they’re reversed. Right? But they’re still connected. Right. I feel more connected to Pam after we have sex. She wants to feel connected to me before we have sex.
Juli
Yeah.
Corey
So it’s just this element of, okay, that’s a dynamic that’s part of the crucible of our growing. so realizing my path to getting what I want is more sophisticated than this will help me be engaged with this. So it’s looking at the nuances buried in it to get to where I start to see the motivations I’ve got for intimacy and connectivity.
I also need to invite that, not require it. I need to live that. Because if you’re not gonna, maybe you wanna feel real connected to your husband and he’s, it’s not something, it’s foreign to him. He could grow into it to a degree, but maybe you also have some good girlfriends that you really do feel intimately connected with on emotional levels, mental level, spiritual levels. Okay, well.
Corey (44:46.348)
That can help satisfy some of it. I still long to have this with my husband, but maybe I can take a little pressure off of him by having this with them too. And again, it’s not all or nothing on any of this. This is all just more awareness to not replace or push anything out, but it’s the whole picture is what we’re trying to create.
Juli
Corey, I’m just imagining what this conversation between me and you would have been like if we had it when we were 30.
Corey
Yeah, would be very different. Totally different. Yeah, totally different. I mean, because it’s that element of, man, there’s so much that we still don’t know about ourselves. I mean, I think of it in terms of, I actually had this conversation with my 17-year-old, not this bluntly, we were kind of dancing around it, but it was, we were talking about sex and some of the female anatomy and just some different things like that. It could lead into, what does this even really mean? And I’m like, you know what, buddy, your mom and I have been going at each other for 31 years and we still haven’t figured this thing out. We have a better idea, maybe, but we still haven’t figured it out. Because I still am never figuring out me. Because things change and things evolve. And that’s where then they start to become more profound. I think of, here’s what’s, let me paint this picture before we run out of time.
So I think this is a good way to kind of capture some of what we’re talking about. The profoundness of sexual intercourse, when we first start and things just work, right? That she can get engorged and lubricate without much trouble and he can get an erection without any trouble and it just works. They both could achieve orgasm and it just works. Okay, well, if you fast forward, that’s going to evolve and change. It might take longer.
Corey (46:49.73)
You might need more lubrication or outside sources of lube to help. His erection may not be as strong and it may not ever be as strong. But if you look at the profoundness of the actual act of intercourse to where she actually helps guide him in is a different level of connectivity rather than it just works.
Juli
Yeah.
Corey
You know what I mean? So it’s just this element of, there’s a picture of all of us confronting ourselves in the context of confronting our marriage and our sex lives that just creates a different depth as we evolve. And I think a lot of couples, they don’t see it like that yet until they’re introduced to it. And then you start seeing it as, wait, this is so much deeper and more profound and meaningful than just an act now. And that’s what I want people to taste for sure. That’s the mission of Sexy Marriage Radio is for people to taste the essence of what we can become and do as we become. That’s the goal.
